James: Do you ever end up helping people get, like, sub coaches or community managers or assistants helping people through the course, or collaborating with other experts in the marketplace and bringing their IP and just like… For example, when I run my live event, I bring in experts and they help me create the content at the live events. These podcasts – I’m leveraging the expertise of other people and we’re sharing good intellectual property, and the audience really likes that as well. Like, the course creator doesn’t have to provide 100 percent of the intel, right?
Doc: Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So when it comes to like, managers or anything to do with their own audience, usually we’re just doing a call to action from their own audience. And once they’ve already bought the course, or already seen results, and they’re passionate, they love the brand, and they know the right kind of messaging and everything, and it’s easier to bring that in versus if I’m training someone that has no context of what this business is. So, you know, usually I do where I have a set of like, call to actions, how do you vet the people, what would you do? And I usually have one of their CMOs do all of that or one of their assistants.
The other one for partnerships, I have something kind of like, it’s a PR tour, but it’s similar like a band of how they would do it, but I have the influencer write down who are the people they can collab with, people they know, people they don’t know. And then we rate them based on tiers. And we’re like, okay, we’re going to target these people, we’re going to have this release. And that way, it stays fresh, how they’re sending their signature course, because now they’re cross-pollinating with the other audience, when we’re promoting the signature product and everything.
James: You mentioned CMO – what size businesses are you seeing actually having that role in their business? Like, obviously, some people are starting out with nothing, and then you go through to, you know, bigger revenue companies. And clearly, like, if the expert’s a golfer or a tennis star, they’re not going to be doing most of their direct marketing stuff. So where do you see that role starting to appear?
Doc: You know what? That’s a good question. Usually somewhere, I see it just with the influencer space and smaller, like between five or 10 people, that’s when I usually see it. Or they get that, you know, that marketing manager, and then they usually turn it and because they’re so small, they’re like, okay, they’re our CMO. Like, they switch over.
Doc: But that usually seems like the sweet spot, and that’s when we’re like, okay, now we can really start killing it, when we have that size of the company.
James: Perfect. I’ll just mention, that’s a Chief Marketing Officer, for anyone wondering, what’s a CMO?
I want to ask a peer-to-peer question: when you’re looking at this sort of work, do you charge a fee for service, or do you ever look at partnerships? Because I do a blend of both.
Doc: You know what? Yes. So I want to do partnerships in the future. I’ve tried it a couple times. But I find that it’s really hard to find the right type.
James: Got to have filters. Got to have filters.
Doc: Yeah, I’ve tried it and either I’m like, Oh, I see so much potential, but…. Maybe it’s just because I haven’t perfected it the right way. I find that either I hit it, like, when I do partnerships they’re like, not as motivated as me, and I’m always pushing. I’m just like, this is not going to work. I haven’t found it. Or they’re big enough, and they’re like, why would we do partnership? We’re just going to pay you this allotment, we’re not going to do a partnership. And I’m like, yeah, that makes sense. I’m totally fine with that. So I go with services. Partnerships, there’s something, I think, like you said, I’ve got to have a better, just a sequence to make sure I do it. And then finding the right personality to do it. I’ve been close a couple of times, but it just didn’t align at the time.
James: Yeah, definitely worth another conversation. I’ve been building my portfolio over a couple of years of partnerships. One way to really help that, and I mentioned this because a lot of people who are listening to this have the wherewithal, the marketing chops to actually carry this out and they’re constantly seeing opportunity, but one way is to start with the idea of you want to go into a particular area and then to look for your talent, rather than waiting for who just walks in the door and seeing if they might be a good partner or not. But you definitely need some good filters.
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